Mohammad: Sex with 9 year old
The tactics section consists of quick examples of a specific technique that can be employed during the course of a debate or discussion to help give you an advantage.
Tactic: Argue for the most defensible claim that is fundamentally devastating to your opponent's position
For example: An atheist who argues 'Mohammad was the worst person who ever existed and nothing he said was ever worthy of consideration', will be far less effective than a person who goes out of his way to be conciliatory.
If he had instead argued something like, 'in light of Mohammad's consummating his marriage with a 9 year old girl, the moral example of the life Mohammad lead could be improved upon for today', the claim that is being made is far more narrow, far more focused, and requires far less to defend.
Takeaway: most Muslims would take serious issue with either statement, so choose the statement that's easier to attack and defend.
In Islam, Mohammad’s life is the best example of how to lead a virtuous life and how he lived is to be emulated by all faithful Muslims.
It is blasphemous to suggest that Mohammad’s moral example could be improved upon.
Example argument:
Mohammad's marrying a 6 year old girl and consummating the marriage with her when she was 9 years old means that Mohammad's example of how to lead a moral life could be improved upon.
The Sahih al-Bukhari is the most trusted Sunni collection of Hadiths which records the life of Mohammad.
It has passages like the following (the link is to the specific quote in the USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts):
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88: Narrated ‘Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
The Prophet is, of course, Mohammad, who is seen consummating a marriage with a nine year old.
I ask in my "Why Engage in Religious Debates?" essay: "If people honestly believed that this kind of behavior is the highest morality that we could even aim for, what effect could this kind of thinking have in the real world today?"
The usual response to this claim varies from "that was a different time, and you're judging Mohammad by today's standards" to "how dare you even attempt to criticize the prophet?"
The simplest response is to remain as narrow and focused on the specific claim as possible: "I'm not condemning Mohammad for his actions in this case. I'm merely saying that today people shouldn't follow his example because it's far from the most moral way to act."
Stick on the point that a grown man having sex with a 9 year old is not an acceptable situation. Therefore, it is not moral to follow Mohammad's example today.
This argument is most effective in a public setting because the situation ends with the Muslim either publicly defending having sex with a 9 year old as the epitome of moral action (not just 'forgivable' but an example of the highest moral life) -- or publicly stating that Mohammad's example needs some polishing to be applicable for today.
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[...] An excellent article on how Mohammad's moral example being less than impeccable. [...]
[...] For example, the Qu’ran does not condemn slavery and in the Sahih al-Bukhari Mohammad marries a 6 year old girl. The Imam gave the following explanation: Basically, you have to take into account the historical [...]
Thanks for inspiring my latest bumper sticker:
"Hey Mohammad, If I'd had sex with a nine year old girl, I wouldn't want anyone drawing pictures of me either!"
I trust you are aware that a number of Muslim scholars argue that Aisha was actually about 19 at the time of consummation.
http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm
However, this does not reduce the moral turpitude of those who accept the tradtional view.
/had in plan short comment, to pick on ya for fun but from somewhere this comment, is what we ended up with../
So it was kind of unclear to me, you kind of say its for sure, bad thing to go in to spiritual relationship with 9 years old?
Why so, is she not worthy.. or .. can really see and reason in here. Where is the problem exactly, some kind of anti women / child thing ?
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Take in to account, that this Mohamed dude, just had had conversation with someone who was sent directly from the one s who made us all and is all wise, good and knows what will be needed upfront.
We are talking about a dude who has first hand knowledge of most horrible things that Will happen to Anyone who does something that is not considered good.
Also when you are in this state of delusion or in touch with Allah Word - most likely you will see around you god spiritual beings, angels, and hey - why not also the dark ones. And what can be more spiritual, respect worthy then a women, a child, a virgin and your wife when they are pure, And when one puts them all in one, and knows - that Allah not just knows hes deeds but also hes thoughts - can we really, seriously people, can we really even can start to consider, that anything bad can happen with this child ? Our minds are perhaps a bit messed up by porn, bad movies and .. well, our own desires, that we even can start to consider it to be bad.
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( just for ... did we considered, that Allah might have known what else might have been happened with this girl, when would not have been taken? What kind of teachings needed for life he got from her what might he newer get otherwise ? And o boy, so many other things, to consider, but when you want to consider anything related to religion - then look, feel and see it from religious point of view
LOL. Can you explain what's wong with his "consummation of marriage" with Aisha?