Comments for Mohammad: Sex with 9 year old
Comments for: Mohammad: Sex with 9 year old
35 Responses to “Comments for Mohammad: Sex with 9 year old”
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If anyone is preposterous enough to say “You’re judging that by today’s standards”, all you have to say is “Yes! Thank you! Thank you for recognizing that today’s standards are seperate from yesteryear’s standards, thus tacitly recognizing that yesteryear’s solutions aren’t appropriate for today’s situations.”
You can not tell someone that there morals are wrong, morals are completely subjective. If it is Muslim doctrine that Mohammed was the exemplar of moral life and he had sex with a 9 year old, then it’s ok. You’re coming at this from your own moral standpoint which says ‘having sex with nine year olds is wrong’, so if you see something contridictory to this, you condemn it. When actually, morals are completely subjective and cannot be proven right or wrong. There’s no way you can prove to me that it’s wrong to kill three babies a day, just like there’s nothing objectively wrong with having sex with a nine-year-old, whether or not it is generally accepted by the majority in today’s society is irrelevant. This is not an argument that Islam is wrong or that Mohammed was not an exemplar of moral conduct.
Yes that's right. Paedophilia is a valid sexual orientation! Join N.A.M.B.L.A! Fuck kids! Do what ever you want because if you believe it's ok, then it's ok!
Gotta go, those women aren't going to rape themselves are they! Yeeeee Haaawww!!!
are you batshit insane?
Then, by this logic, NO argument could be made that Mohammed was not an exemplar of moral conduct because "you can not tell someone that there [sic] morals are wrong."
@No need for a name – “You can not tell someone that there morals are wrong, morals are completely subjective.”
I cannot because it would be wrong? Obviously not morally wrong according to you…
Perhaps you mean incorrect? As in factually false?
If this is what you mean, then I’d be lying by making this argument. Should I not make this argument then because saying things that are factually false is… well it certainly isn’t wrong, according to you. In this case, then, what’s wrong with lying about morality?
If there’s nothing wrong with it, according to you, then why did you leave a note?
Morality is no absolute…only an agreed upon standard. What is wrong today may be right tomorrow. The salient point here is that what Mohammed (sp?) did yesteryear is not right by today’s standards. Nor is many of the things he preached. It couldn’t get more simple.
I think that morality should be judged out of it consequences, for the individual and for the society, both in a short perspective and in the long run. To sleep with a nine years old will cause an individual pain and maybe ruin a life, and should thus be condemned as morally bad. I believe and hope that morality has had, and will continue to have, a slow and winding evolution towards “better” since we climbed down from the trees. Or maybe even since we climbed out of the water ;-)
To sleep with a nine years old will cause an individual pain and may be ruin a life ?
Minute details of her life (Ayesha) were recorded and are preserved in the history. Please go through it. She served Islam 48 years after the holy prophet, Muhammad(Peace be Upon Him) death. She was very happy with her husband. She lead a very happy life with him. She had the greatest knowledge and she served the muslim community as Islamic judge for more than 3 decades.
Srinivas, I'm eagerly anticipating your endorsement of marriage with 9 year old girls as a generally praiseworthy endeavor that should be widely adopted.
Please see 4 replies I have given today to GREGARIOUS comment on this page
Srinivas, do you honestly think that you've addressed my argument?
I wrote: "Srinivas, I'm eagerly anticipating your endorsement of marriage with 9 year old girls as a generally praiseworthy endeavor that should be widely adopted."
And you wrote several hundred words without ever clearly endorsing the actions of your prophet as a model for modern human behavior.
Seems a pretty simple request, will you endorse the marriage of 9 year old girls as a generally praiseworthy endeavor that should be widely adopted? Or not?
You should be able to answer this question in under 100 words.
@No need for a name – To say that morality is completely subjective is to say that nobody can put forth arguments that particular actions are clearly more undesirable than others. Do you really believe this? Do you honestly believe that a rational case could not be made against the undesirability of randomly killing babies?
This is a digression with intent to discredit ideas by their assosciations of immorality.
Now why would anyone go out of their way to attack an individuals personal beliefs because of a technicality? I’m sure the prophet Mohammed is not held in high regard because of his views on marriage. The only legitimate argument you can make here is to point out that if anyone follows Mohammeds view on child molestation, they are in conflict with your moral code.
Morality has never been a subjective assesment, but rather a set of local common ideas and unwritten laws. Chances are that Mohammed was not in breach of such a code at the time, and so this action does not discredit the rest of his message nor his person. It does not make him an immoral person, and if you want to discuss other ideas that he had, the ones that people paid attention to and follow, then keep your discussion on those subjects.
Abraham Lincoln had slaves and opposed civil rights for black people. Does that mean that all his ideas were immoral?
I suspect that your advice on how to argue with a Muslim comes from an interest to merely be right, and not to reconcile differences, solve a problem or promote mutual respect, which should be the only reasons for debate.
The point is Muslims claim Muhammed and his Koran are perfect.
In fact, they base their entire religion on this notion.
So it’s brilliant to focus on something that clearly shows a serious flaw.
Sex with nine year olds has always been wrong, and not just today. The proof for this assertion can be found by doing a Google search for “fistula” and reading the heartbreaking truth about what happens when children are the victims of early sex. There is absolutely no defense for the notion that sex with children was ever considered to be exemplary behavior. Behavior that was heard of? Yes. Commonplace? Maybe. Exemplary? Absolutely not.
To think otherwise is to spin deeper into your own religion-induced delusion.
>The proof for this assertion can be found by doing a Google search for "fistula" and reading the heartbreaking truth >about what happens when children are the victims of early sex
Good point. Now, you need to go back and research who the "9 year old" kid was and what happened to her after she was "victimised".
So would you agree, Nas, that Mohammad's actions — sex with a 9 year old — is a general practice that should be encouraged? Or, given the medical conditions cited above, do you think it ought to be discouraged?
You do realize that the whole point of my argument is not that Aisha was traumatized in particular; but the terrible consequences of having Mohammad's actions be a template for future action, right?
You do realize that the whole point of my argument is not that Aisha was traumatized in particular, but the terrible consequences of having Mohammad's actions be a template for future action, right ?
Dear Atheist, First of all you should know that she accepted the marriage. She was very happy with her husband. Not only that she always wanted him, she loved him very much. Go through her statements recorded in Saheeh Bukhari or Sahee Muslim. How can you use the word "traumatized" without knowing her history. In the beginning, I fetl that the atheist people running this website are educated. Now I understand that you do not study the facts. Is it not foolishnes to compare the present day health conditions of human beings to the people lived 1400 years ago.
Islam instructs that the bride and bridegroom must be willing to marry each other. There must be two eye witnesses. The age of consent may be varied. It is very common in Britain now a days, girls are involved in sexual activities at that age. To prevent pregnancies, vaccines are given. Few days back, I read from a news paper that condoms will be supplied to the boys of 12 year old in Britain on their credit cards.
Why boys and girls in rogue countries like USA and Bratain behave like this ? What is wrong with them ? Where is the problem ? Because they do not have moral values.
Upto 1886 in USA, the americans were having sex with 7 year old girls. The age was increased from 7 to 10 years in 1886. But in Delaware state, It was still 7 years for sometime after 1886. In the present century, in California, the girls and the boys can marry at any age if their parents agreed. In USA alone, there was no single age limit for girls. It varies from state to state. Why?
I wrote: "You do realize that the whole point of my argument is not that Aisha was traumatized in particular, but the terrible consequences of having Mohammad's actions be a template for future action, right ?"
The answer continues to be clear: No, you do not realize the point of my argument.
Let's do this one clause at a time.
"my argument is not that Aisha was traumatized in particular"
What is my argument NOT about? The specifics of Aisha's marriage.
"my argument is about… the terrible consequences of having Mohammad's actions be a template for future action"
What is my argument about? The consequences for future actions based off of Mohammad's example.
I'm not really interested in condemning the specific actions of a long dead man.
I'm interested in people living today, their situation, and to for societies everywhere to progress morally.
I will state that societies should not encourage 50 year old men having sex with 9 year old girls.
I will further state that societies should not even allow 50 year old men to have sex with 9 year old girls.
I invite you to declare your thoughts as boldly and clearly (and concisely) as I have.
How can one compare the sex with 9 year old lady of present day with the same happened 1400 years ago? Nobody at that time objected the marriage. Every christian, jew and arab pagan at that time was eager to find a fault with Muhammad(PBH). After the death of prophet, Ayesha(R) preached the muslim community over 48 long years. Not only in moral aspect, in any aspect, no one can be compared with the standard of Muhammad (peace be upon him). Go through the authentic history. Till 1898 the legal marriagable age for lady in USA is 10 years. The marriage at 10 years age in USA 100 years ago was legal but now it is illegal. Please think before you comment.
Did the 9 year old enjoy it, does anyone know?
After reading the article, I just feel that I really need more information on the topic. Can you share some resources ?
Having sex with your own wife of 9 years old is NOT wrong.
Having sex with your mistress of 25 years old IS wrong.
Having sex with your own type of 30 years old IS wrong.
It is not about sex is done but HOW the sex is done that is important.
After your response, I will provide you the proofs one by one.
Study the Holy Qur'an and the teachings of the holy prophet which were collected and preserved in books like "Saheeh Bukhari" and "Sahee Muslim".
Without studying facts, any person who has moral values can not allege like this.
It seems from your people that sex with 9 year old girl is painful after marriage and it is not painful having sex without marriage.
Finally, I want to tell you that Islam instructs about marriage and does not suggest the age. The age depends on Time, Region and the physical and mental conditions of the people.
in islam marriageable age is not specifically define by qur'an itself, that from what age do girl could be able to marry, as what other secular countries perceived, in islam the marriageable age could be determined only once the girl reached its first
menstruation period, that means when a girl reached that stage it is then allowable to marry her, as long as the 'wali' the father or the guardian as well as the girl involved voluntarily agreed, by doing so the giving of necessary mahar or dowry is required based upon the existing customary tradition of the muslim community. it shows that age is not the determination factor of marriageable age rather the state of her womanhood through menstrual period.
This means that girls as young as six can be married, and that it can be appropriate and moral for a forty year old man to have sex with a nine year old girl, right?
I would like you to be very clear on this point before we continue.
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The parents of Ayesha were very good in all aspects. Her father asked the holy prophet to take her to his house. We have the records. Before marrying, she was already engaged to some other person at the age of 6.
50 yeas ago, It is a common practice in India to marry their girls at that age. You do not know the health conditions of the people lived 300 years ago. Then, How can you understand the health conditions of the people lived in 1400 years ago.
If it is unusual practice, How could the christians and jews of that time leave the holy prophet. They were always ready to find fault with the holy prophet.
The holy prophet is the greatest man in all aspects of human kind. Can you prove that this is wrong?
First you please question the California courts. If the answer is simple Yes or No, then why should the marriagable age is changed from state to state in US. Nobody can endorse a particular age. It is dependent on several factors. Ofcourse, my previous response is lengthy, you please read all the words not the 1st 100 words. Prophet's first marriage was held with 40 year old widow. I can endorse this marriage. Similarly all of his marriages. Please do not compare a contemporary issue with 1400 year old incident. Please ask California courts, the answer from them may make you to think in right direction.
\”Please do not compare a contemporary issue with 1400 year old incident.\”
I think you are arguing that Mohammad's example should not be followed today — or is irrelevant for determining how we should act today. If that's what you're arguing, then we agree.
"Mohammad's example should not be followed today". First you understand my comment. From your comment, I understand that you can't tolerate any negative answer for your question. His teachings are valid for ever. His example can be followed at any time, at any place in the world. Qur'an allows muslims to have both vegetarian and non-vegetarian food. It doesn't mean that a muslim must take both. If he likes only vegetarian food, he can take it. He has the choice. Prophet had 11 wives. The wives belong to different age groups at the time of their marriage. Hence, a muslim can select any age group. If a girl is matured physically and mentally (adult) and ready for marriage at 9 years age with his parents consent, why should we be bother? That is why many courts in the world including California, do not object such marriages. It is not allowed girls to have sex without marriage. Sex with girls without marriage is allowed in western countries. Muhammad's example is relevant. There is no doubt about it.
Thank you for finally answering my question directly. It's beyond troubling to me that you think a 9 year old girl being married to and having sex with a 40+ year old man is behavior that is not only acceptable, but moral. I can understand the reluctance to forthrightly come out and say as much.
Now, I'll attempt to answer yours. I'll answer it as inclusively as I can. I condemn any modern system that encourages or even accepts 9 year old (or younger) girls being married to and having sex with 40+ year old men. You seem to think that this is allowed somehow in California — if this is the case, then I condemn it unequivocally.
I have no issue criticizing California, or any other system (including Islam, Sharia, etc.).
If you want to condemn something, you condemn it whether it is right or wrong. It is your personal opinion. why 40+, 50+ or 60+? A man can marry a woman. (I condemn like you homosexual and lesbian marriages). If a matured man and a matured woman are willing to lead a life, they don't need your or my approval. They need suggestions from their parents or well wishers.
Why are you talking about 9year girl, 12 year girl, 18 yr girl? Girl is Girl and Woman is woman.
After marriage, with love and mutual understanding oly any couple can lead a happy life. So age is not the criteria. Love and mutual understanding. Marriage is not only for sex which is a small part of their married life. The title of the topic clearly shows your intention. Not sex with 9 year old, sex with his wife. In the beginning itself, I know that you can't be convinced. I only want to make some of the people visit this site to think. That is all.