Comments on: Lunch with Mormons http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/ Atheists need to make more of an effort to be heard in their daily life. Mon, 19 Dec 2011 04:51:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Danny Boy, FCD http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-374 Danny Boy, FCD Tue, 24 Mar 2009 01:55:10 +0000 http://conversationalatheist.com/?p=757#comment-374 Wait a minute! Why are you replying to my comment? I didn't write the blog post. LOL. <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('374','Danny Boy, FCD'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('374','Danny Boy, FCD','Wait a minute! Why are you replying to my comment? I didn't write the blog post. LOL. '); return false;">Quote</a></div> Wait a minute! Why are you replying to my comment? I didn't write the blog post. LOL.
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]]> By: ConverseAtheist http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-369 ConverseAtheist Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:31:32 +0000 http://conversationalatheist.com/?p=757#comment-369 "Free will is the pillar of human existence. It is the biological beginning of a God created earth, the cause of all suffering and joy in this life, and in the life to come..." So, free will is the cause of all suffering in this life and in heaven? How much suffering is there in heaven? <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('369','ConverseAtheist'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('369','ConverseAtheist','"Free will is the pillar of human existence. It is the biological beginning of a God created earth, the cause of all suffering and joy in this life, and in the life to come..." \n \nSo, free will is the cause of all suffering in this life and in heaven? How much suffering is there in heaven? '); return false;">Quote</a></div> "Free will is the pillar of human existence. It is the biological beginning of a God created earth, the cause of all suffering and joy in this life, and in the life to come..."

So, free will is the cause of all suffering in this life and in heaven? How much suffering is there in heaven?

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]]> By: steve http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-367 steve Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:27:10 +0000 http://conversationalatheist.com/?p=757#comment-367 As for the stories? Well, is it harder to believe that God appeared to man in modern times and made some of the laws of the universe more clear and emphasized love and benevolence...or that Einstein saw in a vision, or vivid imagination, a visual metaphor of the theory of relativity? I would argue that it was God appearing to both in different manifestations. You may criticize me and fellow Mormons for believing in intelligent design...but design without intelligence is merely chaos. And the symmetry and balance of the world, from sub-atomic to the universe is anything but anarchy and chaos. Good to see you exercising your free will, may it bring you the joy of progressing intellectually, emotionally and spiritually. <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('367','steve'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('367','steve','As for the stories? Well, is it harder to believe that God appeared to man in modern times and made some of the laws of the universe more clear and emphasized love and benevolence...or that Einstein saw in a vision, or vivid imagination, a visual metaphor of the theory of relativity? I would argue that it was God appearing to both in different manifestations. You may criticize me and fellow Mormons for believing in intelligent design...but design without intelligence is merely chaos. And the symmetry and balance of the world, from sub-atomic to the universe is anything but anarchy and chaos. \n \nGood to see you exercising your free will, may it bring you the joy of progressing intellectually, emotionally and spiritually. \n '); return false;">Quote</a></div> As for the stories? Well, is it harder to believe that God appeared to man in modern times and made some of the laws of the universe more clear and emphasized love and benevolence...or that Einstein saw in a vision, or vivid imagination, a visual metaphor of the theory of relativity? I would argue that it was God appearing to both in different manifestations. You may criticize me and fellow Mormons for believing in intelligent design...but design without intelligence is merely chaos. And the symmetry and balance of the world, from sub-atomic to the universe is anything but anarchy and chaos.

Good to see you exercising your free will, may it bring you the joy of progressing intellectually, emotionally and spiritually.

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]]> By: steve http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-366 steve Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:23:51 +0000 http://conversationalatheist.com/?p=757#comment-366 We existed before. We exist now. We will exist after this life. Free will determines our level of serenity in each state, and the free will of others also affects that serenity to some degree (from the angst of witnessing genocide, to the angst we experiencing when our child is in the hospital). <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('366','steve'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('366','steve','We existed before. We exist now. We will exist after this life. Free will determines our level of serenity in each state, and the free will of others also affects that serenity to some degree (from the angst of witnessing genocide, to the angst we experiencing when our child is in the hospital). '); return false;">Quote</a></div> We existed before. We exist now. We will exist after this life. Free will determines our level of serenity in each state, and the free will of others also affects that serenity to some degree (from the angst of witnessing genocide, to the angst we experiencing when our child is in the hospital).
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]]> By: steve http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-365 steve Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:21:23 +0000 http://conversationalatheist.com/?p=757#comment-365 We existed before. We exist now. We will exist after this life. Free will determines our level of serenity in each state, and the free will of others also affects that serenity to some degree (from the angst of witnessing genocide, to the angst we experiencing when our child is in the hospital). As for the stories? Well, is it harder to believe that God appeared to man in modern times and made some of the laws of the universe more clear and emphasized love and benevolence...or that Einstein saw in a vision, or vivid imagination, a visual metaphor of the theory of relativity? I would argue that it was God appearing to both in different manifestations. You may criticize me and fellow Mormons for believing in intelligent design...but design without intelligence is merely chaos. And the symmetry and balnce of the world, from sub-atomic to the universe is anything but anarchy and chaos. Good to see you exercising your free will, may it bring you the joy of progressing intellectually, emotionally and spiritually. <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('365','steve'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('365','steve','We existed before. We exist now. We will exist after this life. Free will determines our level of serenity in each state, and the free will of others also affects that serenity to some degree (from the angst of witnessing genocide, to the angst we experiencing when our child is in the hospital). As for the stories? Well, is it harder to believe that God appeared to man in modern times and made some of the laws of the universe more clear and emphasized love and benevolence...or that Einstein saw in a vision, or vivid imagination, a visual metaphor of the theory of relativity? I would argue that it was God appearing to both in different manifestations. You may criticize me and fellow Mormons for believing in intelligent design...but design without intelligence is merely chaos. And the symmetry and balnce of the world, from sub-atomic to the universe is anything but anarchy and chaos. \n \nGood to see you exercising your free will, may it bring you the joy of progressing intellectually, emotionally and spiritually. \n '); return false;">Quote</a></div> We existed before. We exist now. We will exist after this life. Free will determines our level of serenity in each state, and the free will of others also affects that serenity to some degree (from the angst of witnessing genocide, to the angst we experiencing when our child is in the hospital). As for the stories? Well, is it harder to believe that God appeared to man in modern times and made some of the laws of the universe more clear and emphasized love and benevolence...or that Einstein saw in a vision, or vivid imagination, a visual metaphor of the theory of relativity? I would argue that it was God appearing to both in different manifestations. You may criticize me and fellow Mormons for believing in intelligent design...but design without intelligence is merely chaos. And the symmetry and balnce of the world, from sub-atomic to the universe is anything but anarchy and chaos.

Good to see you exercising your free will, may it bring you the joy of progressing intellectually, emotionally and spiritually.

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]]> By: steve http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-364 steve Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:20:48 +0000 http://conversationalatheist.com/?p=757#comment-364 Mormonism accepts this progression, celebrates it, is humbled by it. We don't portend to know everything, and feelings and faith certainly contribute to what we learn. But no one human being can comprehend the scope and purpose of all existence from beginning to end in this life. We weren't meant to...but we certainly believe that the willingness to learn (because of free will) through all phases of existence, particularly into the thousands of years in which our consciousness will continue to thrive, that we may one day know what it takes to organize matter ourselves. (look how long it took scientists to figure out that light is manifested in waves and particles). You could call that ability Godlike. So what do Mormons believe? <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('364','steve'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('364','steve','Mormonism accepts this progression, celebrates it, is humbled by it. We don't portend to know everything, and feelings and faith certainly contribute to what we learn. But no one human being can comprehend the scope and purpose of all existence from beginning to end in this life. We weren't meant to...but we certainly believe that the willingness to learn (because of free will) through all phases of existence, particularly into the thousands of years in which our consciousness will continue to thrive, that we may one day know what it takes to organize matter ourselves. (look how long it took scientists to figure out that light is manifested in waves and particles). You could call that ability Godlike. So what do Mormons believe? '); return false;">Quote</a></div> Mormonism accepts this progression, celebrates it, is humbled by it. We don't portend to know everything, and feelings and faith certainly contribute to what we learn. But no one human being can comprehend the scope and purpose of all existence from beginning to end in this life. We weren't meant to...but we certainly believe that the willingness to learn (because of free will) through all phases of existence, particularly into the thousands of years in which our consciousness will continue to thrive, that we may one day know what it takes to organize matter ourselves. (look how long it took scientists to figure out that light is manifested in waves and particles). You could call that ability Godlike. So what do Mormons believe?
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]]> By: steve http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-363 steve Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:19:53 +0000 http://conversationalatheist.com/?p=757#comment-363 That was a choice by God to begin the creative process. Before that we all existed in a particle form different from the body we inhabit now (see Stephen Hawking for definitions of matter---it has always existed and always will) we call that a spiritual form. So for simplification terms it looks like this: 1. spiritual form. 2. physical, earthly form. 3. spiritual, refined form. In each of these forms we have a conscience, and the ability to make choice and feel their consequences. As governed by some of the laws of evolution, there are laws of progression and digression. But again, they are all based on the choice we, as beings whose matter was organized by God, make everyday. <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('363','steve'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('363','steve','That was a choice by God to begin the creative process. Before that we all existed in a particle form different from the body we inhabit now (see Stephen Hawking for definitions of matter---it has always existed and always will) we call that a spiritual form. So for simplification terms it looks like this: 1. spiritual form. 2. physical, earthly form. 3. spiritual, refined form. In each of these forms we have a conscience, and the ability to make choice and feel their consequences. As governed by some of the laws of evolution, there are laws of progression and digression. But again, they are all based on the choice we, as beings whose matter was organized by God, make everyday. '); return false;">Quote</a></div> That was a choice by God to begin the creative process. Before that we all existed in a particle form different from the body we inhabit now (see Stephen Hawking for definitions of matter---it has always existed and always will) we call that a spiritual form. So for simplification terms it looks like this: 1. spiritual form. 2. physical, earthly form. 3. spiritual, refined form. In each of these forms we have a conscience, and the ability to make choice and feel their consequences. As governed by some of the laws of evolution, there are laws of progression and digression. But again, they are all based on the choice we, as beings whose matter was organized by God, make everyday.
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]]> By: steve http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-362 steve Mon, 23 Mar 2009 20:18:03 +0000 http://conversationalatheist.com/?p=757#comment-362 I think you've oversimplified Mormon beliefs...and maybe you or the missionaries weren't clear. Free will is the pillar of human existence. It is the biological beginning of a God created earth, the cause of all suffering and joy in this life, and in the life to come (think of the next life as a transcendent experience, a transformative, biological process religionists call a separation of body and spirit). Einstein came closest to defining this process when he described the atomic process of transforming a log into smoke and ashes---releasing the energy within and transforming it into another form of energy. At the beginning of life, there was a choice to push the first step into motion. <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('362','steve'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('362','steve','I think you've oversimplified Mormon beliefs...and maybe you or the missionaries weren't clear. Free will is the pillar of human existence. It is the biological beginning of a God created earth, the cause of all suffering and joy in this life, and in the life to come (think of the next life as a transcendent experience, a transformative, biological process religionists call a separation of body and spirit). Einstein came closest to defining this process when he described the atomic process of transforming a log into smoke and ashes---releasing the energy within and transforming it into another form of energy. At the beginning of life, there was a choice to push the first step into motion. '); return false;">Quote</a></div> I think you've oversimplified Mormon beliefs...and maybe you or the missionaries weren't clear. Free will is the pillar of human existence. It is the biological beginning of a God created earth, the cause of all suffering and joy in this life, and in the life to come (think of the next life as a transcendent experience, a transformative, biological process religionists call a separation of body and spirit). Einstein came closest to defining this process when he described the atomic process of transforming a log into smoke and ashes---releasing the energy within and transforming it into another form of energy. At the beginning of life, there was a choice to push the first step into motion.
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]]> By: Danny Boy, FCD http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-340 Danny Boy, FCD Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:08:27 +0000 http://conversationalatheist.com/?p=757#comment-340 I don't know anyone who's a Mormon, but I've seen missionaries walking about. They seem like decent people, I'd let them in the house if they come a-knockin' at my door. <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('340','Danny Boy, FCD'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('340','Danny Boy, FCD','I don't know anyone who's a Mormon, but I've seen missionaries walking about. They seem like decent people, I'd let them in the house if they come a-knockin' at my door. '); return false;">Quote</a></div> I don't know anyone who's a Mormon, but I've seen missionaries walking about. They seem like decent people, I'd let them in the house if they come a-knockin' at my door.
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]]> By: Uruk http://conversationalatheist.com/2009/03/lunch-with-mormons/comment-page-1/#comment-339 Uruk Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:17:32 +0000 http://conversationalatheist.com/?p=757#comment-339 Very interesting post. Very interesting about the "free will" issue. I wondered as a kid what if I blundered in heaven, like Satan and the 1/3 of heaven. What would keep me sinless in heaven if even the angels couldn't keep out of trouble? You've made a more practical argument out of those kinds of feelings that I once had even back when I was still Christian. Well said. <div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('339','Uruk'); return false;">Reply</a> | <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('339','Uruk','Very interesting post. Very interesting about the "free will" issue. I wondered as a kid what if I blundered in heaven, like Satan and the 1\/3 of heaven. What would keep me sinless in heaven if even the angels couldn't keep out of trouble? \n \nYou've made a more practical argument out of those kinds of feelings that I once had even back when I was still Christian. \n \nWell said. '); return false;">Quote</a></div> Very interesting post. Very interesting about the "free will" issue. I wondered as a kid what if I blundered in heaven, like Satan and the 1/3 of heaven. What would keep me sinless in heaven if even the angels couldn't keep out of trouble?

You've made a more practical argument out of those kinds of feelings that I once had even back when I was still Christian.

Well said.

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